Was I in the wrong or right?

[Cнroмα]

I am remaining neutral on my opinion in this matter, as I personally believe that everyone is at fault here.

From what was provided, a hostile takeover of a battalion was initiated out of character, and those matters have been stressed before that everything relating to the take over of a battalion is supposed to remain in character.

As for Alpha, what you did was wrong. Even if it is fun and games, it still is not very mature to edit a document insulting someone and making fun of them with sexual orientation jokes, even if you made a copy for yourself.

I see a very viable option here. Everyone should drop the issue, and pretend it never happened. When we changed the name of the community I believe that we had to change the way we acted in order to maintain a respected reputation. If that reputation is taken down, then it may require more drastic changes in my opinion.

If you believe what I am saying is wrong or out of context, please tell me immediately and I will fix/clarify.
-Chroma.

 

[Jordan]

I can agree that what was put on the doc was immature, and was out of bounds. I was in the channel when you guys linked the doc. Although I did not put any comments about staff, images, or anything disrespectful of that sort like you guys did, I still laughed at it. A bystander. It was ridiculous just like the original doc was.

When heavy brought me down to their channel to ask me about it, he said I should have stopped it. He was right in a way. But at that point, I honestly had no fucks to give. I was a little aggravated and was already typing up my resignation thread when he pulled me down their.

The only input that I can provide is that you vandalized a doc which I believe was not supposed to be available to the general public,

They didn't edit the doc heavy and jog made. They copied it and made their own private one.

I think the whole arc takeover idea was major abuse, why didn't they get in trouble for that. I mean that is crazy, I don't give a shit about the doc, I do give a shit however when you take someone's battalion for no reason. That was a bad call.

I quote "Admin Takeover" was indeed the final straw. It was not the reason why I left. However, the last nail in the coffin. There have been to many times where similar situations have occurred, one of which was actually only a few days before this one. I had even said in that case that if it continued and was given the go ahead, I was resigning. Luckily, it never happened. However, only a couple days later for something like this to happen is berserk.

It's the staff going into the things non RP and just taking over or demoting, removing, enforcing new things without going through proper channels.
OOC Issues Rule 9:

• 9) Staff do not have authority to promote/demote troopers in battalions without the highest ranking officer’s permission.

This is in place to help prevent staff from just removing someone from their rank and position for no reason at all. Now regarding Commanders being the highest rank in a battalion, I would assume it would then be up to a commander meeting. WHICH might I add, that it had said on the doc that jog's signature did not take effect until the commander meeting for it to be agreed upon and accepted. However, Heavy had told me that @Jog said to him he can go a head and take over right away anyways. If this is true or not, I'm not sure.

Honestly, if you wanted to do admin takeovers to help get the server better and active again, do it with battalions that currently do not exists. Like the 41st. Where there is not a single person who comes online in that battalion. |

The entire situation was not handled properly to begin with. My most concern about it was the poor guy who was commander was confused and had no real idea why he was removed. Heavy didn't even tell him anything to begin with. He had sock do all the talking (Allegedly by Thrall) And then when heavy had told me it was the "Admin Takeover", well, I then relayed that to thrall. As he deserves to know the real reason why.

I'm sorry, but the only real reason listed in that doc was inactivity. However, I have seen thrall on every single day, for hours at a time. Just the single day before this happened, there was a bunch of arc on doing laps in the main hanger. The only person who would have testified that Thrall was inactive would have been Jim. Who also was going to leave Arcs to join Null arcs with Heavy. To which surprise surprise, coincidentally Jim was the only person who stayed in the ARCs after Heavy took over and purged it. I mean, the only people who was consulted about Thrall being removed from commander, are those who was going to benefit from it.

To get back to the document. They made it to "try" to be more RP. However, in what reality does the lowest rank in the military relieve their highest officer of duty for them to take over. Might I add, someone who is not even in their battalion.

Alpha is not the reason why I left. I seen the doc, I seen it even before I finished posting my resignation letter. I'm not sure who all made edits to it, but I laughed at it regardless. I was resigning. What did I have to loose. This case was not the reason why i left either. It was building up. I had already told Banana, and several others about my departure for probably about a month now. It does sadden me that it had come to this though.

Great to see CW hasn't changed since the name change

Not so great for HL2. I don't even have to be apart of the community to tell it has changed for the worst from being complete cancer via 80% of the staff on it. It's sad when most high staff of HL2,. those who are suppose to set the examples for other users are banned off the forums for constant flaming, and harassing users.

 

[DersertedCake]

We are just on the band wagon with other gamemodes my friend. Today we stopped and creating a dedicated forums for clockwork servers.

 

[Blasty]

We are just on the band wagon with other gamemodes my friend. Today we stopped and creating a dedicated forums for clockwork servers.

If your telling the truth I will send you enough chocloates that the FBI will get it confused for some culinary terrorist plot.

 

[Iankiller99]

Heavy and jog tried to take over Arc

Alpha made that a joke (Which it is)

Jog punishes alpha (Jog wtf)

Pretty easy to see who is wrong here

Jog didn't punish alpha besides a two weeks probation tag on ts. Banana did the demotion. Either way this is in the talk about the community section so not a demotion appeal. My whole two cents is that staff have done takeovers of failing battalions in the past, which is where heavy got the idea. He got Jog to think it was okay and they both signed off on it. That is not abuse, and they don't have to do that in rp. Staff can make decisions like that without the consent of those in rp, might sound a bit unfair to you but staff have the last say in server matters.

Heavy was demoted for not running this idea by Banana first. His words not mine. Alpha was demoted for immaturity, disrespect, defacing the document, and lack of professionalism. the fact these things were posted on a copy of the document doesn't matter. If there was a public copy of the entire staff list and I went in and posted NSFW things on it or defaced it in any way I would also be subject to probation or demotion. If there is one thing you should never joke about it is staff matters. Staff issues and documents should be taken seriously no matter the situation, act professional, we represent this community and can choose to do so in a positive or negative light. They should be taken seriously, and if Jog or Banana saw fit they can demote you on those grounds. Now, whether or not that was a complete demototion is up to them, but again, you have been on probation at least 8 times (again alpha's count not mine). Is it ultimately their decision. I implore you to make an actual staff demotion appeal so something official could be done and decided, as that is your right.
But please don't start out here saying

Now reading this prove that heavy and jog abuse their power to get ARC using their staff power. (Again this is not to attack Heavy or jog. It use to prove my right.)

because literally you are attacking heavy and jog when you say that it is a fact that they abused their power to get ARC. Again, staff can in fact do that, the only reason heavy was demoted was for not running it by banana FIRST.

Welp, that was a pretty long two cents worth, but either way needed to be said.

DISCLAIMER:
I do not claim to know every single thing that happened, I am only bringing here what I know to be fact at the time of writing. There may be things I do not know, if so please tell me. I also do not claim to endorse or condemn the actions of those mentioned above.

 

[swag]

We are just on the band wagon with other gamemodes my friend. Today we stopped and creating a dedicated forums for clockwork servers.

That's actually pretty funny. It'll be a bunch of dudes trying to be super edgy. If it means they'll be cancer somewhere else then I'm all for it tho

 

[Iankiller99]

I think the whole arc takeover idea was major abuse, why didn't they get in trouble for that. I mean that is crazy, I don't give a shit about the doc, I do give a shit however when you take someone's battalion for no reason. That was a bad call.

Again, we're not exactly talking about taking a fully functional and active battalion and taking it over, although I do see your point and think this could have been done differently.

 

[Iankiller99]

I gave you probation for writing on my Doc, that issue of the Doc was minor to me but still mad me furious that a staff member would do something like that.


Maybe also if HE TOLD ME that it was a Joke I would of laughed, but no it seemed serious and that's how I took it.

Also, to see that your own staff members would go and make light of the serious document you had put forward would definitely not sit well with anyone. Jog is in this position and has to make serious decisions sometimes. You can be against them all you want but to stoop low and deface it like that is just immature and disrespectful.

 

[swag]

Jog didn't punish alpha besides a two weeks probation tag on ts. Banana did the demotion. Either way this is in the talk about the community section so not a demotion appeal. My whole two cents is that staff have done takeovers of failing battalions in the past, which is where heavy got the idea. He got Jog to think it was okay and they both signed off on it. That is not abuse, and they don't have to do that in rp. Staff can make decisions like that without the consent of those in rp, might sound a bit unfair to you but staff have the last say in server matters.

Heavy was demoted for not running this idea by Banana first. His words not mine. Alpha was demoted for immaturity, disrespect, defacing the document, and lack of professionalism. the fact these things were posted on a copy of the document doesn't matter. If there was a public copy of the entire staff list and I went in and posted NSFW things on it or defaced it in any way I would also be subject to probation or demotion. If there is one thing you should never joke about it is staff matters. Staff issues and documents should be taken seriously no matter the situation, act professional, we represent this community and can choose to do so in a positive or negative light. They should be taken seriously, and if Jog or Banana saw fit they can demote you on those grounds. Now, whether or not that was a complete demototion is up to them, but again, you have been on probation at least 8 times (again alpha's count not mine). Is it ultimately their decision. I implore you to make an actual staff demotion appeal so something official could be done and decided, as that is your right.
But please don't start out here saying because literally you are attacking heavy and jog when you say that it is a fact that they abused their power to get ARC. Again, staff can in fact do that, the only reason heavy was demoted was for not running it by banana FIRST.

Welp, that was a pretty long two cents worth, but either way needed to be said.

It seems like you don't know the full story regarding the arc takeover. There are several reasons why it is abuse or wrong in many ways. Read Jordan's post or the doc itself and you'll see.

 

[Iankiller99]

It's issues like these why I left. The community is fucked. People double cross and dont follow even the basic rules THEY placed in.lol

But disco you were one of the good ones that didn't do those kinds of things, a light shining in darkness so to speak. Q.Q

 

[Iankiller99]

It seems like you don't know the full story regarding the arc takeover. There are several reasons why it is abuse or wrong in many ways. Read Jordan's post or the doc itself and you'll see.

Trust me I do know, maybe not every minute detail, but heard multiple different sides of the story and was there for all the official discussion. I am not here to tell every single side of the story with my own and others opinions. I am here to be objective and state facts. If you would like to bring things I missed or have misconceptions on please do, if it would further the discussion.

I also do not know when the new cw OOC rules were written. Were they just put up with the new forums, or have they existed before then? I have not been provided with an up to date official rules list for clonewars. If @Jordan could link me to these rules that would be of tremendous help to me.

 

[swag]

Trust me I do know, maybe not every minute detail, but heard multiple different sides of the story and was there for all the official discussion. I am not here to tell every single side of the story with my own and others opinions. I am here to be objective and state facts.

So banana demoting alpha for something someone else did is ok?

So wiping a battalion based on the testimony of one guy who never voiced a single complaint is legitimate? (And he just so happens to be the only arc who didn't get removed)

On the bottom of the doc it said that heavy needed permission from the commanders before he did anything. But he wiped the battalion just like that.

Also like all of the reasons listed on the doc don't really make sense. They're made up.

Maybe I'm missing something because I wasn't at the meetings so if you could clarify these things that would be great.

 

[Iankiller99]

So banana demoting alpha for something someone else did is ok?

So wiping a battalion based on the testimony of one guy who never voiced a single complaint is legitimate? (And he just so happens to be the only arc who didn't get removed)

On the bottom of the doc it said that heavy needed permission from the commanders before he did anything. But he wiped the battalion just like that.

Also like all of the reasons listed on the doc don't really make sense. They're made up.

Maybe I'm missing something because I wasn't at the meetings so if you could clarify these things that would be great.

You're telling me alpha didn't change anything on the document, or it was someone else? This is news to me. He told us yesterday what things he changed, I can't recall exactly what they were but he did admit to changing things. Also, to clarify on the bottom of the document it doesn't say they NEEDED permission it said "this action may be debated upon IC/OOC dependent on whether the commanders wish for this action to go ahead and take place." never this action will be decided by the commanders, or that they needed explicit permission from them. Also, I never said the reasons on the doc made sense or were correct, I simply stated the fact that staff had the power to in fact do this sort of thing without going through IC channels. I'm not saying I support their decisions though.

 

[The Holy Alpha]

Guys please stop fighting over this. If your going to fight please go PM eachother

 

[Iankiller99]

Guys please stop fighting over this. If your going to fight please go PM eachother

We are not fighting, and that should be apparent to everyone here. This is all discussion, which is in fact the reason you made this thread. He's asking for clarification on a few things and I'm answering. I don't see any problems here, unless @swag or the majority of this document considers this an argument. In which case I will retract my posts.

 

[swag]

You're telling me alpha didn't change anything on the document? It was someone else? He told us yesterday what things he changed, I can't recall exactly what they were but he did admit to changing things.

If you read my earlier posts you would see that I already said what he did was wrong. But Alpha wasn't demoted for what he wrote. He was demoted by Banana for something someone else did. Is that right? Or was that false?

Also, to clarify on the bottom of the document it doesn't say they NEEDED permission it said "this action may be debated upon IC/OOC dependent on whether the commanders wish for this action to go ahead and take place." never this action will be decided by the commanders, or that they needed explicit permission from them.

It DID say they needed permission. It said "DEPENDENT(<---------) on whether the commanders wish for this action to go ahead and take place."

If the commanders don't wish for this action to go ahead and take place then it CAN'T happen.

Also, I never said the reasons on the doc made sense or were correct, I simply stated the fact that staff had the power to in fact do this sort of thing without going through IC channels. I'm not saying I support their decisions though.

Ok. I'm not here to debate for the sake of debating. Can you either clarify whether my earlier points are true?

So banana demoting alpha for something someone else did is ok?

So wiping a battalion based on the testimony of one guy who never voiced a single complaint is legitimate? (And he just so happens to be the only arc who didn't get removed)

On the bottom of the doc it said that heavy needed permission from the commanders before he did anything. But he wiped the battalion just like that.

Also like all of the reasons listed on the doc don't really make sense. They're made up.

Maybe I'm missing something because I wasn't at the meetings so if you could clarify these things that would be great.

Because if they are then the takeover was clearly abuse. I remember one of the reasons people gave Templar shit was because he would do exactly what happened here with Heavy and/or Jog. He would take matters into his own hands, and whether he made the right decisions or not it was irrelevant because people got salty because people like to get salty. Because of that we made commander meetings so that things would be decided through a valid RP method and through more of a democracy(or a republic kappa). Is this cool now? Are we gonna go back to our old ways or are we gonna stick with commander meetings?

If heavy was punished then I can see why Alpha would be put on a probation as well. Alpha screwed up too if we wanna look at it that way, although I would say they were venting their frustrations more than anything tbh. Thrall and the entire battalion got rekt and it seemed hopeless. Jordan was leaving so people were butthurt. But if Banana demoted Alpha from staff because he thinks that Alpha made Jordan leave then that's completely false and should be fixed.

 

[Iankiller99]

You're telling me alpha didn't change anything on the document? It was someone else? He told us yesterday what things he changed, I can't recall exactly what they were but he did admit to changing things.

If you read my earlier posts you would see that I already said what he did was wrong. But Alpha wasn't demoted for what he wrote. He was demoted by Banana for something someone else did. Is that right? Or was that false?

Also, to clarify on the bottom of the document it doesn't say they NEEDED permission it said "this action may be debated upon IC/OOC dependent on whether the commanders wish for this action to go ahead and take place." never this action will be decided by the commanders, or that they needed explicit permission from them.

It DID say they needed permission. It said "DEPENDENT(<---------) on whether the commanders wish for this action to go ahead and take place."

If the commanders don't wish for this action to go ahead and take place then it CAN'T happen.

Also, I never said the reasons on the doc made sense or were correct, I simply stated the fact that staff had the power to in fact do this sort of thing without going through IC channels. I'm not saying I support their decisions though.

Ok. I'm not here to debate for the sake of debating. Can you either clarify whether my earlier points are true?

*snip*

If heavy was punished then I can see why Alpha would be put on a probation as well. Alpha screwed up too if we wanna look at it that way, although I would say they were venting their frustrations more than anything tbh. Thrall and the entire battalion got rekt and it seemed hopeless. Jordan was leaving so people were butthurt. But if Banana demoted Alpha from staff because he thinks that Alpha made Jordan leave then that's completely false and should be fixed.

I was not here to debate, I did clarify your points. I said in my first post the exact reason Alpha and Heavy were demoted, it was for his actions in changing the doc and what he wrote. Also "You're telling me alpha didn't change anything on the document? It was someone else?" was a legitimate question, I was not being snarky or otherwise obtrusive, sorry if it came off that way. Also I believe your interpretation of the final line is a bit off. It says

Note: This signature is only authorizing the approval of this action, and this action may be debated upon IC/OOC dependent on whether the commanders wish for this action to go ahead and take place.

Which means it may (might) be debated upon IC/OOC dependent (depending) on whether the commanders wish for it to take place. It doesn't say it will be debated, or that they can't go ahead and do what the document says without commander approval. I can see why you'd think that though and had to reread it multiple times just to be sure. Heavy was punished for not running it by banana first, alpha was demoted for his edits to a copy of the document that were unprofessional and immature. Nobody was demoted for "making jordan leave".

If I capitalize certain words it is to draw attention to it. I am not here debating anything. I am not being rude or disrespectful to anyone here. I am not putting my own personal opinions or emotions into my words. I am answering your questions.

If @Jog or @Joshv676 would like to clarify on the ending line then please do. Otherwise I have stated everything I would like to get across and will not respond further to this post unless asked.

 

[swag]

I was not here to debate, I did clarify your points. I said in my first post the exact reason Alpha and Heavy were demoted, it was for his actions in changing the doc and what he wrote. Also "You're telling me alpha didn't change anything on the document? It was someone else?" was a legitimate question, I was not being snarky or otherwise obtrusive, sorry if it came off that way. Also I believe your interpretation of the final line is a bit off. It says Which means it may (might) be debated upon IC/OOC dependent (depending) on whether the commanders wish for it to take place. It doesn't say it will be debated, or that they can't go ahead and do what the document says without commander approval. I can see why you'd think that though and had to reread it multiple times just to be sure. Heavy was punished for not running it by banana first, alpha was demoted for his edits to a copy of the document that were unprofessional and immature. Nobody was demoted for "making jordan leave".

If I capitalize certain words it is to draw attention to it. I am not here debating anything. I am not being rude or disrespectful to anyone here. I am answering your questions.

Then there are conflicting stories and confusion. Alpha was already put on probation for the doc by jog, then alpha said that banana demoted him because banana thinks alpha made Jordan leave. If that's true, then Alpha should be put back in staff because that's not the case. But if Banana fully demoted alpha from staff just for editing a copy of the doc then that's overkill (IMO) because that's the same thing that Jog put him on probation for.

And all things considered, the ARC takeover seems to be abuse and misuse of power. The evidence and reasons for the takeover have zero merit, considering how they were taken from 1 biased witness who never told the commander of his battalion his problems. And then that witness was the only one who wasn't wiped. And then the accusations against the battalion were false. And if the final line at the bottom of the doc about the decision being dependent on commanders wasn't necessary then the whole thing just seems fake. The takeover of ARC should have been decided at a commander meeting or something like usual. Unless I'm missing information, it seems like ARC was wiped because of personal reasons. So when someone (alpha) makes a copy of the doc that is full of abuse/BS and tries to have fun with it, it shouldn't be punished that severely. That doc was the final straw for Jordan so we were all kind of down at the time and Alpha decided to have some fun with it. Probation? Sure that seems reasonable. Demotion to mod? Ouch even that is harsh but a full demotion from staff is too much.

 

[Iankiller99]

Well just putting this out there, but maybe we should lock this thread until management releases an official statement on the matter? So as to not argue or be confused as to what is happening until we have it from them verbatim. @The Fezz @Jog @TheGrandBanana thoughts?

 

[Major Stern]

Banana seems like a clueless guy

I said alpha was punished by Jog because of the probation.